your missing the point : there is a big difference in a casual kiss between a man and his wife as apposed to a full on passionate kiss
if groping , fondling and other inappropriate touching were allowed there would be very few woman there
your missing the point :
not sure i am missing the point more not understanding the American attitude towards intimacy, it seems to be assumed (or from reading on here it would be) that it always leads to full on sex, there have been lots of comments on here about male/male physical bonding interactions in the states and how it is an alien must be sexual concept for many (complaints made by straight Americans wishing it wasn't so uptight over there). Here in the uk especially on a beach you see couples being very loving, massage openly or applying suncream in an obviously sensual loving way and warm tender kissing, all the things healthy people do. No one bats an eyelid at this. In club venues it is indeed more restrained until the alcohol flows at night, then the barriers seem to drop and people admit to being human and in love/flirty etc. I have only once seen this lead to a sexual fondle and on that occasion she realised it might have to wait until later because he playfully knocked her hand away. So it is not a women would not go issue at all, that is generalising, some females are more sensual in the sun and enjoy being so. Unless you are stating all women in the USA do not find sunshine and nudity sensual ever.
I don't drink I don't need to do so to relax or gain confidence, so i can understand how the alcohol can be a problem with behaviour, i find it strange that people need it to be comfortable naked or even tactile, i can agree with you that alcohol induced displays of sensual behaviour really are not nice to be around. I do find it hypercritical that venues happily sell alcohol and have party nights yet impose a strict decorum in the daylight hours. I think there is a cultural difference here Europeans are well known for being more tactile and open, I have never been to the states but you guys do come across as having issues with intimacy, nudity and sexual openness and many of the members who talk to me have stated they find it very restrictive over there simply from the point of view of being able to talk about these things. I am not a swinger but have been to a club several times , it was a great social experience and the only nude venue available within 100 miles of my home, We did not have sex or engage in the sexual side of the evening but talked to many swingers while all nude. They are just people not monsters without compassion for others, they do not hunt in packs luring others into the filth, they are people, many were just loving couples trying to find a way to rid themselves of societies guilt over sex by meeting others to talk. Some were naturists like us and just liked the huge jacuzzi and freedom from kids. That venue started doing sunday teas in the garden due to the increase in naturists who just wanted to chill without kids around and with adults who would openly chat. So in reality the naturists took over certain days at their club but no one complained about their lifestyle being eroded. I get the impression that many on here consider a swinger as not eligible to be a naturist or that clubs should only provide for the pure nudist, that is nativity, if the market is changing these guy do need to make money. Many naturists are swingers or exhibitionists or voyeurs etc, if you do not believe this then you have very limited conversations on here with a narrow audience, each person has a different outlook, some are reluctant to admit it but in private messages away from the main threads it soon comes out.
None of this is aimed at getting venues to be swinger havens unless they clearly state this in the site description (especially family venues) but perhaps some posters are indeed as HHC states not connecting with the wider nude community and drawing conclusions from a limited source of knowledge.
I find this thread odd and confusing. It seems that couples are trying to avoid swinger couples at nudist venues after already discriminating against single males as being inherently flawed, sexual or evil. I'd like to think that nudism-naturism is about body acceptance and respect, of self and others. Instead people seem to fight just like everywhere else to force their beliefs and values on others without consideration or respect.
As a nudist father of two young sons, one would think the nudist community would make an excellent place to instill healthy family values. Instead US nudist social gatherings seem to be get some of the worst of Puritan prejudice and lewd sexuality. Going to state parks and keeping our shorts on is the better alternative, which makes me sad because my sons end up thinking nudism is just a weird dad trait rather than a healthy lifestyle to adopt as they become adults.
I have to take exception with Rabbitnbunny's assumption that Mazo beach was closed because of all the sexual activity going on there. As anyone from the area knows that beach was patrolled by the locals very well to make sure it didn't get that kind of a reputation. When Mr. Walker became governor he made no secret of the fact he was going to close it down to show his conservative base how moral he was. It took him a few years and many false information campaigns but he finally got it done. Its closing had nothing to do with any PDAs and everything to do with politics.
Gov walker did make it known he wasn't happy with it but there were 2 factors. No revenue and illegal drug activity. So many people believed you could go there to smoke weed and not be charged even though it was patrolled heavily. It wasn't the nudists that got it closed it was the jags who thought they wouldn't get caught smoking their "legal weed".... politics was a factor but weed jags got it closed for good