RE:Very disappointed and disgusted with The Naturist Society Foundation

I am not American and I refused to live there despite being offered an increased revenue. In the last decade or so, for various reasons, I have also been avoiding travelling to the US. So this is a very outside view but...

What is really sad is that BLM is considered POLITICAL. I can quote many figures (I am into social science and statistics) which prove that 1. US police is overzealous (25% of world's prisoner population is imprisoned in the Land of the Free) 2. Police is very violent and trained to kill in the US (look at the ratio people killed by police/ police killed and compare to other countries'). 3. There is systematic discrimination against POC (look at the ratio between POC and whites charged with usage).

We have also been witnessing police killing dozens of black people for zero reason. So yes, there are structural problems with US police (although racism is likely not the biggest of them, insufficient vetting, training, accountability and organisation are more important and I can prove this with data).

As such I think BLM is a reasonable movement which can be supported at any level. The problem is that it has been politicized. This is sad but it is a social reality. I will really support the BLM movement when I see that they also say Brown Lives Matter. Bush Jr dropped 70,000 bombs in 8 years. Obama, 100,000. Trump, 72,000 in 4 years. The time it took me to write this, 2 innocent brown civilians were killed by a US drone. But I get it, they are not US citizens so not "real people".

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RE:Very disappointed and disgusted with The Naturist Society Foundation

I am not American and I refused to live there despite being offered an increased revenue. In the last decade or so, for various reasons, I have also been avoiding travelling to the US. So this is a very outside view but...What is really sad is that BLM is considered POLITICAL. I can quote many figures (I am into social science and statistics) which prove that 1. US police is overzealous (25% of world's prisoner population is imprisoned in the Land of the Free) 2. Police is very violent and trained to kill in the US (look at the ratio people killed by police/ police killed and compare to other countries'). 3. There is systematic discrimination against POC (look at the ratio between POC and whites charged with usage).We have also been witnessing police killing dozens of black people for zero reason. So yes, there are structural problems with US police (although racism is likely not the biggest of them, insufficient vetting, training, accountability and organisation are more important and I can prove this with data).As such I think BLM is a reasonable movement which can be supported at any level. The problem is that it has been politicized. This is sad but it is a social reality. I will really support the BLM movement when I see that they also say Brown Lives Matter. Bush Jr dropped 70,000 bombs in 8 years. Obama, 100,000. Trump, 72,000 in 4 years. The time it took me to write this, 2 innocent brown civilians were killed by a US drone. But I get it, they are not US citizens so not "real people".

Everything here in US has been politicized!! EVERYTHING! What restaurants to eat at / car types / NOW sadly - skin color!! Love your outside view... REALLY like in the land of the free so many locked up!! Probably one of the most anti-body accepting countries too!
ALL of your points about police are acceptable - - REFORM yes indeed / dismantle - NO! Thank you for your input!

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RE:Very disappointed and disgusted with The Naturist Society Foundation

The one great thing about this country and this site is it allow everyone to express themselves....

We are leaving TNSF - everyone who feels differently - PLEASE HELP them continue the EFFORT to fight for NUDIST rights. We have not given up on NUDISM as a cause ... we always have AANR - and we can pledge to help them with our funds and efforts to get more people involved!! WE travel to more nudist venues than most people / we see value in every person and WILL not allow others to work to divide society into manageable groups... We accept ALL people - PERIOD!

IMAGINE - if the article would have been about BLUE lives matter (how wonderfully the police organizations accepted nudist) and it was time for ALL nudist to stop bitching about nudist right and back LAW ENFORCEMENT! WE'd use the magazine to start fires in the fire pit! POLITICAL / DIVISIVE issues should remain personal - - BEST NUDE WISHES TO ALL... especially to all BLM NUDIST!!

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RE:Very disappointed and disgusted with The Naturist Society Foundation

Your views are a true eye opener. I definitely understand your reason for not wanting to come to the USA for any reason. I get it. We need more people like yourself speaking on these issues and others. You have a way of saying things that can ultimately shift perspectives. Keep going bruv. I'm listening.

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RE:Very disappointed and disgusted with The Naturist Society Foundation

Since crazy Donald had conquered the White House, everything has been politically abused. Abuse of the police, abuse of normal citizens, just to assure a good and easy life for weapon fanatics and Jewish billionaires. And, to finish that all Crazy
Donald refuses to leave White House.
Well, somebody told me that the word "Jewish" is a nazi word. For me it is the same religious classification as "Christian" or "Hindu" or "Moslem". In this sense I keep it written.

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RE:Very disappointed and disgusted with The Naturist Society Foundation

I agree with Tallions viewpoints. As a dual EU-US national, its clear how moving to the US is step down in living standards (starting with the worn-out airport upon arrival and the poorly maintained roads from the airport) and visiting is a risk given the unpredictable gun violence. Citizens of the US pay more per capita for defense and healthcare than other developed countries, yet we are profoundly less safe and healthy to show for it. Most Americans arent aware of this and consider it unpatriotic to make apt comparisons with the rest of the developed world. My faith in the immigrants and people of color gives me hope. Immigrants and their kids have always been the movers and shakers in business startups, from donut franchises to little firms like Apple and Google. And who deserves most of credit for the American culture celebrated around the world? Its our black, brown, gay and other disenfranchised siblings, who have always learned to succeed despite, not because.

So how can we encourage positive change through our common interest of nudism? As a movement, its a poor equalizer for people to be required to travel far and pay high entry fees for private, remote clubs. We need more easily accessible options for public or social nudity which is difficult in a society that exerts control over people by associating nudity and sex. Because our experience with nudism in the US as a single parent family has been negative, its up to my teen sons and their peers to reinvent nudism. This is happening on their terms at the same time as the aging discrimination nudist clubs and body shaming churches fade into irrelevance and shut down. What will that look like? I dont know, but I will keep an open ear to what BLM and other movements are trying to articulate about necessary change vs. accepting others simple and dismissive views about them.

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RE:Very disappointed and disgusted with The Naturist Society Foundation

I find it fascinating for people to say that "religion and politics" should not enter into the nudist society but when a person of color goes to a landed nudist club and sees huge banners supporting Trump at campsites, it's difficult to imagine they feel welcome.Why is that difficult to imagine? - Trump, the "most racist president ever", instituted policies that truly, finally, HELPED the black community, as opposed to the LBJ Democrat mentality of keeping them psychologically in slavery to the government teat. Apparently the black community is waking up to that, as Trump GAINED black votes in this election.

I do not have any knowledge about The Naturalist Societyn because I've never been exposed to them. I wish them the best. But I do have a lifetime of experiences of being Black in America. What amazes me is that Trump has bragged so much about how he's helped the Black community that his supporters have taken his words as the gospel and really believe he has helped us. Well, as a Black man with Black, White, Mexican, Italian, and Hispanic family members, combined with many friends of the same races, not a one of them knows anything he's done to help us! Maybe that's because we don't personally know any filthy rich Black people. Trump has done things to help the rich get riche, so he may have done something for the rich which has accidently benefited the rich Blacks who just happens to be in the class of people he's trying to help. I know some Blacks voted for him just like some Whites voted for Obama. However the ones that publicly supported him are rappers looking to reduce the amount of taxes they have to pay.

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RE:Very disappointed and disgusted with The Naturist Society Foundation

I find it fascinating for people to say that "religion and politics" should not enter into the nudist society but when a person of color goes to a landed nudist club and sees huge banners supporting Trump at campsites, it's difficult to imagine they feel welcome.Why is that difficult to imagine? - Trump, the "most racist president ever", instituted policies that truly, finally, HELPED the black community, as opposed to the LBJ Democrat mentality of keeping them psychologically in slavery to the government teat. Apparently the black community is waking up to that, as Trump GAINED black votes in this election.I do not have any knowledge about The Naturalist Societyn because I've never been exposed to them. I wish them the best. But I do have a lifetime of experiences of being Black in America. What amazes me is that Trump has bragged so much about how he's helped the Black community that his supporters have taken his words as the gospel and really believe he has helped us. Well, as a Black man with Black, White, Mexican, Italian, and Hispanic family members, combined with many friends of the same races, not a one of them knows anything he's done to help us! Maybe that's because we don't personally know any filthy rich Black people. Trump has done things to help the rich get riche, so he may have done something for the rich which has accidently benefited the rich Blacks who just happens to be in the class of people he's trying to help. I know some Blacks voted for him just like some Whites voted for Obama. However the ones that publicly supported him are rappers looking to reduce the amount of taxes they have to pay.

Thank you very much for adding your view point to this conversation... I'm sure the ratio of black to white members of the Naturist Society is very in line with the actual number of black experiencing the nudist lifestyle in general. What I also think is amazing is the number of nudist/naturist that keep it a secret that they are nudist. A black person doesn't deny being black - many gladly embrace it. THIS was never meant to become a political debate on who has help whom... my VERY SIMPLE point was NATIONAL organizations should remain politically neutral (APOLITICAL) - - simple as that - - after all I am a very simple person! AND I don't believe any statistic coming from the government - don't care what administration is spewing the information....

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RE:Very disappointed and disgusted with The Naturist Society Foundation

The situation of POC in the US is not so dissimilar to that of the Roma in Eastern Europe (they were also slaves, in some parts until the 19th century) and of Arabs and Blacks in France (they were not technically slaves, but the French treated them in the colonies as if...). A vicious cercle is set into place: In face of discrimination, these people will create their own ethical rules and culture. With little to no trust in the police, these rules will necessarily include more violence. This will increase discrimination and so on.

Human violence is motivated by 3 things only: predation (you want something which belongs to someone else), pre-emption (you think you will be attacked) and status (the don't mess with me attitude to prevent further messing around). Most violence is generated by status, and the less trust you put in the police the more status becomes important. So when a population is discriminated against and doesn't trust the police, its level of violence will NECESSARILY increase. And it will be even more discriminated against and it will trust even less the police. Of course, internationally, most US violence is motivated by predation - but sold domestically as pre-emption.

But as to the US police. No, you can't make do without. A society can function without enforcement when all its members know each other. So a village of 150 persons yes, NYC no. But some reduction of funding would be in order. In the last 40 years, US police spending was multiplied by 3 in real terms, even though crime rate went down. Today, the policing budget of the US is almost twice as big as the whole defense budget of Russia. NYC police budget alone is 20% of the Russian defence budget.

And pouring money into a broken system doesn't do much good. 18,000 police departments with different training and hiring requirements (in some cases no vetting and only 1 year training). The US govt can't even tell how many people are killed by the police every year because "there is no common database" (!). Many are testosteronic thrill seekers. They are all trained to kill instead of diffuse. Many killings are motivated by status. Oh, you don't want to follow my order to drop that stick and lay down on your belly? I have the right to put 17 bullets in you even if you don't actually threaten me

I once had a gun pulled on me in the US because I didn't mark a stop at one of those silly deserted 4-ways. The officer pulled me over and came to me with the hand on the holster shouting something like "STIKA! STIKA ! STIKA!". English is my fifth language but I am usually able to understand simple concepts. Not when a crazed bodybuilder on steroids shouts at me as if I had killed his whole family. I thought he wanted me to get out of by he car. That's when he pulled his gun and pointed it at me, holding it in both hands. It seems that he was desperately ordering me to do something I was already doing: stay in the car. At that moment I thought I was lucky that I was not black.

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RE:Very disappointed and disgusted with The Naturist Society Foundation

It is so appalling and disheartening to read some of these posts.
The United States has been a beacon of hope and freedom throughout the world for several hundred years. It has taken on the roll of defending the world against terrorism and tyranny, at the expense of the American taxpayer, to thwart violence and mayhem, just to make it a safer place for all. Even the nations who hate us. Take the US military out of the world and total world wide chaos will take over so quickly you'll be begging for our help quicker than you can say America sucks!
It's also sad that racism has become more of a political tool than a concern for society as it was in the day of Martin Luther King, a plea for unity rather than a fight for unity. Fighting doesn't bring unity, neither does violence.
Our police have a terrible job here in a time when killing cops is glorifying not horrifying. They walk up to a vehicle at a stop not knowing if it is a common citizen or a gun wielding drug thug. Not knowing if they may be on the receiving end of a bullet or will they have to make the decision to be on the giving end in a split second decision. Then risk going to jail for defending themselves. Mistakes aren't allowed, panic could mean you're either dead or going to prison. You couldn't pay me enough to be a cop today.
So here I am living in the breadbasket of freedom, living the American dream, but mostly concealing the fact that I am a Conservative Constitutionalist for fear of being villainized, demonized, hated or even assaulted for my personal opinion. Wanting to stand up for the beliefs that made this country great but fear the repercussions of a hateful, biased society that doesn't believe the way I do.
It's a crazy world we live in. So much division. So much hatred. There will probably be some who will de-friend me for this post. So be it, it has happened to me before. I just love this country, MY country. Feel free to hate me for that, but I won't hate you for hating me.
Sorry this was off topic, just had to say my peace.

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