Men's attraction to younger women, and how it's damaging nudism
This topic first came up on another thread in the "Women's Room," but it really didn't pertain to the topic discussed there. But the topic has some value to this forum, and I think it deserves some consideration.
It all started when TabOOO posted:
There is a documentary from France that came out a couple years ago and made quite a stir bc of the title, which was:"Are All Men Pedophiles?"I think it's on Amazon Prime.Not as salacious as it sounds though.. it's just a look at some interesting studies done by university researchers that asked tons of men of all ages and kinds, to rate the attractiveness of various females in pictures, and ask questions like "which one would you prefer as a sexual partner? " etc...Then they spoke to some psychologists and psychiatrists and evolutionary biologists.SPOILER ALERT:uuummm.... "*YES*"*but* they make an important distinction:Most males, it turns out, are most attracted to the physical appearance of young teen females... 13-17. And that is not technically "pedophilia" since they are past puberty, it is actually called "hebephilia".And apparently IT'S THE WAY GOD WANTED IT.Turns out it has to do with evolution, propagating your genome, etc
I've been doing some thinking about this, and from what I could get out of it, the poll wasn't complete enough to get a good picture. They probably interviewed only "textile" males, who've had a different sensitizing experience than nudists did.Here's my alternate theory: When boys get interested in sex, they're usually in their early teens. They're associating far more with 13-17 year old girls than adult women, and when they form their ideals of "feminine beauty," they're far more likely to draw those images from their potential girlfriends. As they get older, they still retain a preference for those images, because it reminds them of their own youth and that era of sexual awareness.And there's always that urge to be the one to take a girl's maidenhead. I think it was Oscar Wilde who put it best. "Every man wants to be a woman's first lover. Every woman wants to be a man's last lover." I know that's a very broad brush, but I think there's some truth in it.
And then Jehoram wrote:
But now it's come to the point where we're debating men's sexual feelings about pubescent girls, and whether they are intrinsically more attractive than mature women. Are we going to say next that, "Hey, this girl is growing boobs! Maybe she should cover them up, so as not to be as attractive to men." Which is 100% the wrong way for nudists to think. Everybody's body is beautiful, whether they're eight years old or eighty years old, and everything in between. And if you have sexual feelings toward any person of any age or any sex, that really acts as an obstacle to seeing who they are as people, which is what nudism is all about. Sure, you can have those feelings... that's human nature... but those feelings have to be put aside. Just like when you're in a restaurant, and you're hungry, that's human nature, too, but it doesn't entitle you to eat somebody else's dinner.
Which brings us all up to date, more or less (I've deleted some responses, but the original thread can be found at
if you want to read it.)
It ties in with what people have been commenting about on some of the other threads here, on the imbalance between the participation of men and women in nudism. If it's true that women see themselves as targets of men's lust from the time they hit puberty, is it any wonder that they are reluctant to feed that flame? Have men been so overt in displaying that attraction that a woman figures that it's not worth her time to get to know the men as individuals, or expect that the men will want to get to know them as individuals?
The Me Too movement has shown the world just how bad and for how long women and girls have had to put up with sexual harassment.
If a women can be harassed on the street she can get harassed on a beach. If you want to know why more women dont try naturism, ask one.
Im of the opinion a woman is never dressed/undressed inappropriately, its always the men who have the problem.
I totally agree, StevieLorna. The #MeToo movement has been a wake-up call for all of us. And you're right, it's a male problem, not a female one. And all I can do about it is to watch my own behavior, and call out men who aren't behaving properly. If I had a son, I'd teach him to respect people of all ages, genders, and racial history equally, whether clothed or not. I was very fortunate to have had a father who raised me that way.
It may be somewhat sexist to say its a one-way street for men hitting on women; there are women out there that come on to men, also. It may not be as prevalent but it happens. You need to cut some of us guys a little slack.
To take an outside perspective (kinda like understanding US politics by contrasting with Canada):
I think it's a Men thing, rather than a Girl thing, because gay men are the same way; gay men tend to find younger men to be sexier. This is true even when the young men are are not presenting themselves as particularly sexualized. Where there is cultural support for it (which is certainly not in the modern West) the mature man taking up with an adolescent male was/is unremarkable, as can be said for mature men taking up with adolescent girls. Please understand, I'm not saying this is a good thing; I'm only saying that I don't think it's a gendered thing. Moving up in age a bit - say, 18 in the US, 16 in much of Europe, you'll find on dating sites, gay and straight, men expressing interest ranging down to whatever the minimum age is, and men with any resources at all tending to partner with persons younger than themselves.
Clearly the original thread, about putting little girls in lipstick, etc., is onto something, and that IS a very gendered thing; nobody burdens their little boys with the imperative to look sexy. But I don't think tarting up little girls is what creates the demand.
As far as damaging nudism... the youngest male and the youngest female members of the site, certainly, and in the wider nudist world, I suspect, are under similar pressures from older men. Certainly a girl brought up with a wildly artificial self-presentation will be less comfortable shedding all of that, than a boy who's been pretty much left alone in terms of social presentation.
In all species including us Homo sapiens, the basic instinct that is still in our DNA, is that the male is looking for a female, not just of childbearing age, but also one that is fit and healthy and will successfully carry and bear his offspring. But it works both ways, the female is looking for a male that will give her a healthy, strong, intelligent and skilful offspring. The male is likely to choose from the younger end of the spectrum, the female probably wont want someone too young, older than herself perhaps, but not too old either.
These days of course we humans have progressed from the instinct to mate at the fertile time of the month, and our sexual attraction tends to be visual. For both genders, that gaze is likely to be towards the younger end of the spectrum.
However, I await with interest input from a female TN member.
** If a women can be harassed on the street she can get harassed on a beach. If you want to know why more women dont try naturism, ask one. **
My wife says that, even now shes in her sixties, when she takes off her top at a beach she can sense the dozens of pairs of periscope eyes popping up and zooming in, like a Tom & Jerry cartoon. She tends only to go topless or naked at almost deserted nude beaches or if we get a villa with private garden and pool. For the same reason she doesnt want to try social nudity.
I read three threads here: on attraction, presentation and objectification.
First, I want to separate men's attraction from their behavior. Just because an adult finds the curves or cuts of a teen attractive, doesn't mean that man or woman has to act on it. A child can be developed and beautiful and still be a child or an immature young adult. It's a matter of self-restaint.
Second, how a youth presents themselves shouldn't determine how they're treated or respected. Men can't blame their sexual behavior on a young teen's lack of modesty or discretion as in "the thong made me do it." We're all responsible for our behavior despite our emotions or attactions.
Third, I consider it sexual objectification when children are presented as sexual adults. This is not limited to eight year old girl beauty pageants, but includes boys and young men, too. About ten years ago I was in an Abercrombie & Fitch store and was shocked to see huge murals of young men's abs plastering and providing all of the lighting in the store, whereas the merchandise was in the dark. Since boys develop later than girls, they might have been older than 18, but I asked myself: what would the public response be if this were a store with big teen boobs wallpaper?
Finally, I don't think men's or women's attraction to teens is damaging nudism any more than any other disrespectful and irresponsible behavior, though it has clearly damaged the Christian Church. It's interesting to note that the Apostle Paul preached strongly against the Roman practice of pederasty (adult men maintaining sexual relationships with boys and young men), which was incorrectly translated to homosexuality after that word was invented in the second half of the 19th century. Many church cultures then developed rhetoric which strongly condemned adult men for having relationships while protecting their own employees from being accountable to sexually abusing the most vulnerable of their church members: children. The Church internally institutionalized the same pederasty is so vehemently opposed.
As adults, we are responsible for our behavior, and textiles are only a distraction from this fact.
But it works both ways, the female is looking for a male that will give her a healthy, strong, intelligent and skilful offspring.......funny you should mention that idea. A close friend of mine confided that she indeed looked for a man with those traits. She had a ...somewhat bumpy life growing up and wanted her children to not go through the same. It makes sense to me.