Young people and physical contact in the naturist environment.

I come from the northern European FKK style of naturist philosophy. It seems that this makes me a little different from most of the people on this website, who my naturist friends would class as just nudists. Yes, there is a big difference between someone who just enjoys being nude when possible (a nudist) and someone who follows a path of trying to live in harmony with and according to natural laws and instincts (a naturist).
I know that group massage is a common form of activity that takes place at many naturist and nudist gatherings, especially in Europe. I was allowed to take part in that from quite a young age. I wonder if there are any more of you out there who had that experience. Also, what your opinions are about the fact that this means that adults and children are actually quite intimate with each other during that physical contact.

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RE: Young people and physical contact in the naturist environment.

It's a very good question, In the world of the 'true naturist' it shouldn't be a problem. Compare it to giving a clothes person a clothed massage in the textile world, a young athlete will often get a massage. the problems occur when a non-naturist gets the wrong end of the stick (so to speak) and starts associating nudity withsexual activities. In bothlifestyles there are always goingto be people who shouldn't be allowed near young kids but if you trust the masseure it should be fine.
I would only do it in front of the parents of the 'young person' as I wouldn't want any misunderstandings but in a group environment it would be fine.
I go to a spa where the masseures are naked and there is no sexual element to it, I find it almost more relaxing than when I am naked and the masseure is clothed.

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RE: Young people and physical contact in the naturist environment.

intresting question, not that know the anser to it, but i am curies what is the northern European FKK style of naturist philosophy????

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RE: Young people and physical contact in the naturist environment.

Have experienced such massage sessions, too. Nothing against them. If everyone is acting responsible, it can be a very relaxing experience and so far have not seen any other than responsible and reasonable behaviour in such context.
Intimacy itself is a rather complicated word. Many take it only as a sexual kind, but in reality it is any mental or physical proximity between two or more individuals, whether sexual or not, or anything in-between. Actually defining sexual is another tricky issue, but a good way to put it is that actions involving direct genital arousal are definitely sexual, otherwise at times hard to define to which degree a pleasure from physical contact is entirely pleasant due to non-sexual reasons or if any sexual reasons involved.
People in general are a bit jumpy about using the word "sexual" as it is interpreted in so many different manners. Like for instance an adult sucking a female nipple is perceived acting sexually, but what about baby in nursing age, who is being held by a nude adult female, grabbing the natural source of nutrition but not getting milk out of there is definitely non-sexual act, even if adult female in question hasn't given a birth and may be slightly confused of what she actually feels while baby is doing it - and baby usually continues suckling for some time even if there is no milk coming out. Just an example from real life...
TravelNudie aka Aki

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RE: Young people and physical contact in the naturist environment.

I am trying to understand the difference. Please expand on your definitions of the difference.

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RE: Young people and physical contact in the naturist environment.

I've never been to a place that considered massages to be a bad thing. By physical contact I expected this thread to be about hand-holding, kissing, or cuddling.

Back massages really aren't sexual, full body massages on the other hand definitely have the potential to be charged.

I'm also not understanding the whole adult sucking on a nipple and baby nursing analogy...

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RE: Young people and physical contact in the naturist environment.

Well I'm a nudist when there is no outdoor naturist setting available.Does that disqualify me from calling myself a Naturist? It's amazing how people segregate themselves in this lifestyle. Can someone please define FKK? and then explain how and FKK Naturist or Nudist is different than any other nudist? How can we expect society to understand and accept nudism when we can't even get anything straight ourselves? This is probably the same reason why people who are non nudists have a hard time accepting adult males and females doing massage on kids in a group. Try to put yourself in the shoe of a non nudist and read what you wrote again. Society in this country (USA) often equates nudism with sex anyway, but when you say the word "Intimate" in the same sentence with Nude Adults massaging nude kids, anything else you say doesn't matter.
You grew up in a nudist/naturist environment, therefore that is what you know, I'm sure it's hard for you to imagine anything different. The non nudist has the same experience with clothes on.
A very good friend of mine grew up in a family where his father was very physically abusive. Anytime he did something wrong, his father beat him and sometimes he beat him to unconciousness.This friend argued with someone in a college class about abusiveness because to him, he thought that everyone beat their kids the same way. Because he grew up with it, thiswas normal to him. Upon further research,he found out thathis dad got the same treatment from his own father as well back in Sicily. My point is that no matter what you perceive as normal, someone else always has a different version of what normal is!

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RE: Young people and physical contact in the naturist environment.

FF3204: Largely agree with you - all these artificial definitions do somewhat more harm than good. People have a tendency to define themselves - as well as segregate - in nude world in a bit similar way than among religious communities. Over tiny details made huge conflicts. Nudism, Naturism and FKK are to me pretty synonymous to same thing and I use all 3 terms - in German language I call myself FKK-ler, in other continental European languages as mainly Naturist (which surprisingly often is mixed with term "naturalist") or in some local expression meaning "practicioner of nude culture" etc. In anglosaxon context I use terms Nudist and Naturist somewhat mixed, and often use just a word "Nudie" too. On the other hand, I have a clear preference of the word "Nude" over "Naked" as previous means "bare" whereas latter means "revealed" and calling a natural state revealed or exposed is against my personal conviction.
People who practice nudity in social context I may call by any of the above mentioned names, but of course people can be further specified through the manner of the nudity, as some do limit their nudity in some ways. There are "beach nudies", who like to be nude at beach and similar but not practice nudity on daily basis indoors at home or with friends nor are interested/willing to participate in other nude events not affiliated with beach/water/outdoors etc. Then there are the "home nudists", who hang nude at home but not socially with other people. If they live alone, they hardly qualify for social nudity as they alone. In some cases it may be a temporary phase on the way to more comprehensive social nudity, but in general to me it sounds as a long-term solution very strange except in very restricted societies like some Asian or African countries. To me a naturist/nudist/FKKler is a person, who spends as much of her/his life clothes-free as possible, without trying to offend others too much and whose main motivation to nudity is neither excessive voyerism nor exhibitionism, nor any other sex-related motivation.
Memberships in Nude recreation organisations are always optional, but most comprehensive nudes are either members or at least somehow affiliated in some associations, already for the simple reason that through membership some places for nude recreation become more accessible (no single male restriction if a member, discounts for stays/visits, regular premises for social nude interaction, arranged programs and events in nude, some lobbying for more tolerance towards nudity etc.)
To adults and kids intimacy, it should be no issue to anyone who is a parent. Kids need physical proximity of an adult and safety it provides. Some children do need it less and some more, some kids move earlier to seek intimacy elsewhere (where it often leads to early sexual experimenting) if not receiving it enough at home and so on. Everyone also likes a massage, it is invigorating and relaxing experience even if not done all that professionally. My 7-yr old won't go to bed before she gets her "smearing" of body lotion and possible rash ointments, regardless of how dry or irritated her skin is - simply as she likes the procedure a lot. Those who mix regular intimate interaction between parents/other adults with kids to sexual activity ought to get things straight in their own head. It if course doesn't mean one should allow any adult to get physical with one's own kids for the obvious theoretical risks, but no need to be overly jumpy, either, especially in non-private situations.
Oregongirl: analogy was there that female nipples can be used sexually or non-sexually as almost any other part of the body, and it is not so much which parts are being touched but how and when.
In the general it is rather strange that even withing nude community things that are rather natural and beneficial have to be justified somehow. Understandably explaining meaning of adults/kids group massages in nude may be a hard nut to crack to someone perceiving nudity solely as an activity directly relating to sex, but when reading the threads here sometimes at least I get a feeling that large chunk of "True Nudist" members have no clue of nude lifestyle in general and are just regular prejudiced textiles masking to be nude for one or the other reason.

TravelNudie aka Aki

Well I'm a nudist when there is no outdoor naturist setting available.Does that disqualify me from calling myself a Naturist? It's amazing how people segregate themselves in this lifestyle. Can someone please define FKK? and then explain how and FKK Naturist or Nudist is different than any other nudist? How can we expect society to understand and accept nudism when we can't even get anything straight ourselves? This is probably the same reason why people who are non nudists have a hard time accepting adult males and females doing massage on kids in a group. Try to put yourself in the shoe of a non nudist and read what you wrote again. Society in this country (USA) often equates nudism with sex anyway, but when you say the word "Intimate" in the same sentence with Nude Adults massaging nude kids, anything else you say doesn't matter. You grew up in a nudist/naturist environment, therefore that is what you know, I'm sure it's hard for you to imagine anything different. The non nudist has the same experience with clothes on. A very good friend of mine grew up in a family where his father was very physically abusive. Anytime he did something wrong, his father beat him and sometimes he beat him to unconciousness.This friend argued with someone in a college class about abusiveness because to him, he thought that everyone beat their kids the same way. Because he grew up with it, thiswas normal to him. Upon further research,he found out thathis dad got the same treatment from his own father as well back in Sicily. My point is that no matter what you perceive as normal, someone else always has a different version of what normal is!

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Nudist lifestyle

I really admire the European philospphy & thoughts around nudism.. really wish it was like that in Australia!!!!

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Nudist lifestyle

I really admire the European philospphy & thoughts around nudism.. really wish it was like that in Australia!!!!

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RE: Young people and physical contact in the naturist environment.

Freikrperkultur (FKK) is a German movement whose name translates to Free Body Culture. It endorses a naturistic approach to sports and community living. Behind that is the joy of the experience of nature or also on being nude itself, without direct relationship to sexuality. The followers of this culture are called traditional naturists, FKK'ler, or nudists. There has been an extensive removal of restrictions on public nudity in Germany since about the 1980s.
Freikrperkultur
Essentially it's Germany's name for naturism, with nothing that sets it significantly apart from non-FKK nudism/naturism.
Re group massage, it sounds great, as long as it remains wholesome and non-sexual. Kids are out unless mom and dad are present. There's otherwise far too much opportunity for ugly, disastrous legal action. In a litigious culture, always err on the side of caution.

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