Male Bonding2
For those who like to explore the concept and dynamics of male bonding. Men are socialized in different ways in different societies, and so many men would like to have close male friendships, yet after spending time establishing a career, primary relationship and live in general, find themselves without close male friends. Many of us want male friends with whom we can share openly without...
- created by AZdesertman
Men Being Affectionate
Return to DiscussionsI saw a video on BuzzFeed and I have to pose this question:
In this post same sex couple world, do you think things and the norms are changing for men being affectionate, both publicly and privately? It featured men kissing on the lips, and they weren't weirded out by it at all. Do you think we are more in our heads when it comes to stuff like that? I think so...Somewhere between childhood and becoming an adult we lost what it means to show real affection, not just a handshake/dap or an occasional sometimes lifeless hug. I'm talking about a deep tight squeeze or an occasional friendly/brotherly kiss.
Anyone have thoughts on this? I think it should be okay to do this kind of thing...
I think you are correct. Male affection is now accepted in many circles, when once it was not. My young cousin (27) is a very handsome fella and very open, he hugs his grandfather and friends and I note that my Uncle is now very comfortable doing so, when many years ago as a Presbyterian Elder, he was very 'proper'. My Uncle now will have a glass of wine and the world does not shrivel up!It is a cultural thing. Most Italians and other Europeans have openly hugged others and it has been so for generations, and no, it is not a homophobic matter.
In the US it is becoming more common in some circles but I would
say it is still the exception. In many Mediterranean cultures it
was always practiced and lost as Mediterranean-Americans
assimilated into the mainstream (too bad). In India I saw many men
holding hands (likewise women) and otherwise showing physical
expressions of friendship, whereas PDAs between opposite sexes are
really not acceptable there. Lots of cultural
specificity, with the dominant American WASP discouragement of man
to man affection gradually waning (yay!).
Well said shore gent.
I was shocked recently when one of my best macho mates instead of shaking hands actually hugged me. . Pity he was clothed lollllllll
it is only a matter of a year or so and it will be widely accepted.
Sports players are giving it the nod every few minutes, even if their team mates don't do anything miraculous they like to hug and grab on the field. Imagine what they are doing in the change rooms and showers. same as us.
i think public displays of affection and friendship are healthy, but public acts of intimacy less so. I don't care for kissing on the lips in the crowded public, and more so making out. It's not a straight/gay issue, but across the board. On the other hand, Im not a prude and am not worried about being seen in public, so if people want to have sex on an isolated beach with no kids around, it's fine with me. It's a matter of respect, which means to look at twice. I am glad to look in the other direction as "the public" but don't want others' intimacy forced in front of me.
Do you have a link to the video? BuzzFeed does some great videos.
Also, I don't understand the the phrase "post same sex couple world". I would think a lot of things, particularly prior to this year and the Supreme Court ruling on same sex marriage, has somewhat been aPRE same sex couple world. The LesBiGay community has been gaining greater and greater acceptance, which in part lead to the ruling, to the point where more TV shows, movies and commercials are featuring not only gay characters but couples.
Still, "affection" between two men doesn't mean the two men are gay. And the biggest hurdle has been that any public displays of affection would be labeled as "gay" with the implication that that is somehow "wrong". So as gays gain greater acceptance and exposure I think the hurdle has begun to lower as more men become comfortable with the idea that being gay isn't a "bad" thing and therefore heterosexual men won't be ashamed to show simple friendly affection for another man.
But to answer your question more directly, I think that social norms have been changing for some time. But they've been so subtle over time that they've simply become the "norm" and no one has seen them as a dramatic change. If you take the concept that art imitates life you can see a major difference in the interaction of male characters over the decades. Men now show more emotion rather than just aggression. They'revulnerable, even in the presence of other men who are supportive. Fathers hug and even sometime kiss their sons on the forehead. And while still played for laughs sometimes, male characters do get naked in each others presence in movies and TV shows, which means that the audience has become more comfortable with this as well.
I like to make the distinction between homosexual/gay/homophobic, which seeks I believe intentionally to be decisive with old school "homosociality" where men are being men around other men because men are men and need to be men together. It's not really a sexuality-focused way to be but sexuality is not precluded either. It is simply how men have always been. The sexual prefixing is simply a way for others to divide and conquer us men, so let us stand strong together, and, yes, even affectionately stand together. Simple things like listening and touch make us strong, and that could be considered affection perhaps but it's besides the point. We are men and need each other.
Do you have a link to the video? BuzzFeed does some great videos.Also, I don't understand the the phrase "post same sex couple world". I would think a lot of things, particularly prior to this year and the Supreme Court ruling on same sex marriage, has somewhat been aPRE same sex couple world. The LesBiGay community has been gaining greater and greater acceptance, which in part lead to the ruling, to the point where more TV shows, movies and commercials are featuring not only gay characters but couples.Still, "affection" between two men doesn't mean the two men are gay. And the biggest hurdle has been that any public displays of affection would be labeled as "gay" with the implication that that is somehow "wrong". So as gays gain greater acceptance and exposure I think the hurdle has begun to lower as more men become comfortable with the idea that being gay isn't a "bad" thing and therefore heterosexual men won't be ashamed to show simple friendly affection for another man.But to answer your question more directly, I think that social norms have been changing for some time. But they've been so subtle over time that they've simply become the "norm" and no one has seen them as a dramatic change. If you take the concept that art imitates life you can see a major difference in the interaction of male characters over the decades. Men now show more emotion rather than just aggression. They'revulnerable, even in the presence of other men who are supportive. Fathers hug and even sometime kiss their sons on the forehead. And while still played for laughs sometimes, male characters do get naked in each others presence in movies and TV shows, which means that the audience has become more comfortable with this as well.
Here's the video that got my wheels turning:
https://youtu.be/d5ci_VlRcig
OIC I thought it was a recent video. I've seen it before. It's along the same lines as the following:
"Guy Friends See Each Other Naked For The First Time" -https://youtu.be/lVS5OnL6bo0
The "problem" with these videos is that the guys are basically going thought the motions. They're doing something for the sake of being interviewed about it on camera.
As for the original topic of showing affection, having guys kiss when there's no emotional attachment on that level is always going to be as awkward as it is in the video. The same goes for guys seeing each other naked when the whole exercise is for two guys to basically "expose" themselves to each other. This is a major difference from a naturist environment or even just changing in the gym.
As it has been said, affection is cultural based. There are different cultural "rules" to different affectionate gestures. Spaniard and Argentine men kiss on the cheek and hug as they greet each other. Indian men hug often and even hold hands in public. View vary by culture. Here in the US things are reshaping by the day. Even age groups have different views on affection. My best friend is straight and whenever we are or living together we are very affectionate even though his culture is very taboo on m2m relationships.
I agree with newdinfl if I spelled it correctly.
I would never kiss any of those mentioned in the first you tube video. I am gay and would only kiss those that I am attracted to. I am also discreet so to do it publicly it has to be in an accepting location.