So those of us on here prefer not to wear clothes... but if we're going to why not support a good cause in the process?
http://fckh8.com/SchoolLaw/
This website is an internet movement meant to stamp out gay hate and to promote gay rights. They sell clothing and apparel and make some very cheeky videos about current gay issues. The proceeds from the clothing and apparel go to help fund pro-gay legislation. This isn't spam, I make no money from promoting this and the only way they make money is if you go and buy their products. Their goal is simple, to stamp out hate, which I think we all can agree is something we could do with less of.
Also, if you watch the videos there are some adorable children saying fuck and it's just... funny and cute at the same time, as well as some old ladies... a couple drag queens, and of course gay and straight youth.
Respuestas
- MUMultisarcasms89Autor originalJun 17, 2011
...Do you read what you write? Congratulations you had it harder. You walked 10 miles in the snow to go to school when people told you you were better to stay home... how does that translate into someone selling sex toys at the Folsom street fair, which BTW is a leather and bondage event not a gay pride, and two men wearing pink wigs being worthy of hatred and scorn? I mean it's your words "vile, filthy" not mine. I mean tell me, did you stand at Stonewall? How about the other events... did you choose to live in the face of this adversity or did you hide? If you hid you can't say you had the experience. And see but here's the thing... you don't have to prove to me you did these things for me to be right. I don't have to sit here and list off the things that I've experienced for me to be right. You're hatred of these things, pink wigs and cross shaped dildos doesn't help anyone. Whether you like it or not, those men in that photo, those vendors, they have just as much right to equality as you or I or anyone else. They have just as much right to be protected and recognized by law.
Let's talk about another thing here... your statistics. I don't know where you're getting that 98% of Americans are straight according to studies polling people the totals are at least 3-4% gay, lesbian, or bisexual. Beyond that are you suggesting that 98% of Americans are against homosexuality and need "convincing" that it's OK? Bitch if that we're the case we'd still be getting stoned and nothing would be getting introduced to further equality legally. So then... what? Let's just crunch some numbers on Prop 8 shall we? Approximately 13.5M votes were cast in regards to Prop 8 in 2008. The total population of the state of California in 2008 was 36.8M people. Of the 13.5M votes, 7M were cast banning gay marriage, 6.5M were cast supporting gay marriage. Now if we follow the "as California goes, so goes the nation" rhetoric to suggest that California speaks for the general population of the United States, we can safely assume that a little less than half of the voting population supports gay rights, and that approximately 19% of the total population actively supports gay rights. I mean that's still a minority but if we follow the other statistic of only one third of the population voting 19/33 means there's a majority out there to soon be had. Surprisingly, well not to me but probably to you, this happened even though people dressed up in wigs and danced in underwear on floats in parades (one might even suggest some of it happened because of these things). The fact is being visible is the only way you keep people's interest. And if 19% are actively supporting gay rights whereas things like Stonewall were only attended by a small few... clearly someone's doing something right.
so anyway. FCKH8.com looks to advance gay rights by funding pro gay political movements through their retail sales, in hopes that all people not just those we deem acceptable can live better lives even though there are people who think that to be yourself is a vile and ugly thing. I bet if they had been around in 2008 they would have totally supported the Prop 8 opponents, just saying.
ReaccionarResponder - CU
Jun 17, 2011[quote] And here I was thinking Nudists were non-judgemental people...[/quote] There you go ! Thinking again. :) [quote]Who cares if there are people who like to dress up? If they feel happy let them! Should I go make fun of people who dress up for carnaval? [/quote] How about people who choose to not dress at all, in anything ? Pretty much the same thing, isn't it ? [quote]Times have changed, the younger generation of today doesn't think the same as for example the people who were young in the seventies.[/quote] I thought that, too. Turns out many of us have been exactly where you "younger generation" are today. It tends to make us one of two things. Intollerant of the foolishness exhibited, because we are ashamed, or regret that we thought and did *exactly* the very same things, OR it makes us very tollerant, because we have fond memories that we thought and did exactly the very same things ! [quote]I believe in respect, but it has to work both ways. If the younger generation should respect the older so should the older generation respect the younger. [/quote] Respect is earned. Matters not whether one is older, or younger. By your actions you earn either respect, or disdane. That choice is yours. The problem only manifests when one has earned disdane, and complains that they are not getting respect. [quote]Is for example a driver of let's say 50 years old more experienced when he drove his whole life on empty country roads than for example a younger driver who has constantly been in heavy traffic and crowded cities? [/quote] Depends on how one drove back then. ;) It'snot surprising to some of us that one of your years can exhibit so much more wisdom than some of us twice or thrice your age. As I've said professionally some times.... Some have 30 years experience. Others have 1 year, 30 times. [quote]What I'm saying here is that, whether or not you like the intention of this cause, please don't turn this thread into a negative one because there are already so many of those...[/quote] And on that point, you have more support than you can possibly know !!ReaccionarResponder - MJ
Jun 17, 2011How about stopping making this personal. (all of you?) As adults, we have opinions, agree or disagree, but at least respect the opinions of others, like them or not. This whole back and forth on this subject, that got way laid, should stop, as all the name calling and such is not a way to respect anyone. sounds like a bunch of 10 year olds trying to make everyone agree with one side only. That does go for both sides of this. The whole reason was to promote one thing only. Did that get lost in all this????? Shessssh. (Oh, i guess that is my opinion, lol)
ReaccionarResponder - MUMultisarcasms89Autor originalJun 18, 2011[quote]Nah, the twink isn't worth it.[/quote] You know after a certain point you think you'd stop on your own... I seem to remember you mentioning something about how bringing up Naziism in a thread in your mind ended it and admitted defeat. Well, I disagree, and since you already think you've won and that you're superior I'm going to do this from now on when I see you just to stop you... ready? NAZI there, feel superior and go away. If nothing else follow your own rules, thread is dead and defeat has been admitted. For the rest though, if you feel like supporting a good cause, or even in engaging in rational debate (have you noticed he hardly ever actually deals with the topic at hand, he just deflects it away like nothing was ever said) then you should definitely stop by this site and participate in this thread.ReaccionarResponder
- MUMultisarcasms89Autor originalJun 18, 2011[quote][quote]Nah, the twink isn't worth it.[/quote] Yeah, his childish repetitive rantings of anarchism are just to boring to read, so bye-bye, bi-boy.[/quote] Then what on earth are you commenting about? You read nothing so... how can you talk about it? FCKH8.com for those that haven't seen it yet. Great site that's raised 250,000 dollars already in donations for charities specializing in suicide prevention, and that is currently raising money up to 25,000.00 where all you have to do is like the link on facebook and share it on twitter. Shirts are made of organic cotton by American Apparel. Get your cause on. They also sell hoodies, underwear, stickers and buttons, and the proceeds go to support amazing charities like the Trevor Project and local political activism groups raising awareness for gay rights. The motto of the site is simple, hate all you want, we're basically going to ignore you and promote a good thing anyway.ReaccionarResponder
- SO
Jun 18, 2011Thing is NiMA, YOU NEED a lession in how to make a rational argument. You have produced a 'definition' of experience or whatever but without referencing it, it might just as well have come from the Micky Mouse encyclopedia of all things NiMA!!
Thing is NiMA, you might have once been a Sparky, and on the subject of electrical wiring and stuff I would certainly take heed of your experience because its not my area of any real knowledge. What I do have is a degree and experience in sociology, which as you may know is the study of societies and how people make them work. Other people have other skills and knowledge. I respect your expertise in electrics, its not too much to ask that you respect others knowledge in other areas. In the real world 'knowledge' has to be referenced so that it can be verified. Otherwise its just opinion. You wouldn't stick your screwdriver in an electrical socket without verifying that the power was off, now would you?!ReaccionarResponder - SOJun 18, 2011[quote][quote]Nah, the twink isn't worth it.[/quote] Yeah, his childish repetitive rantings of anarchism are just too boring to read, so bye-bye, bi-boy.[/quote] Be very carefull Nudispark. We have much better laws on Hate Crime here in the uk. Its probably best you keep your views to yourself. After all this has become a personal conversation. You and NiMA may be two peas in a pod but you live here in a civilised country that doesn't tolerate hate.ReaccionarResponder
- SOJun 18, 2011This topic / thread has yet again been pulled down by NiMA into vile and degrading bigotry that has no place in the nudist movement that I support. It has decended to a point that has gone way below open debate and would probably constitute Hate Crime here in the UK. Freedom of speech is one thing but it has to be tempered with respect for alternative views. Each of us only has the right to free speach if we are prepared to accept that others have that right as well. This site is coming perilously close to needing to be reported to ISP and or the government authorites for the behaviour that is being indulged in. TN1, its time to act to cut out this cancer or the authorites will. In the UK much of what a certain person says on here would be a criminal act. Just so I don't fall foul of my own advice.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_crimeReaccionarResponder
- SOJun 18, 2011[quote]
[/quote]
Sadly this just about sums up the mentality of the dangerous few on here. It's a corruption of wise words spoken by a truly great American, Pres. Abraham Lincoln. A man at the polar opposite of those that think the behaviour on this thread is acceptable.
Well here's an extract from some other wise words from someone with a greater intellect:
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools
which concludes with the words:
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!
'If' by Kiplinghttp://www.kipling.org.uk/poems_if.htmfor those who might like to read it all.ReaccionarResponder - PH
Jun 18, 2011[quote][quote][/quote]
This looks VERY much like our King Albert1!!! lol
As far as the thread goes: I amsick and tiredof seeing every single post being pulled down this whirlpool of name calling, bigotry and down right hatred amongst you all... I sure as hell hope none of my kids ever get to read what has been put on paper here...you should be ashamed to call yourselves decent grownups!!!!
(ok, npw you can start attacking me!)[/quote]
Well said Mieke, Me Too! .... I gave up reading this a while back.ReaccionarResponder - JA
Jun 18, 2011I agree with Mieke, Phil and Wolfie. There will be no resolution to this thread so just put it out of its misery please.
ReaccionarResponder - MUMultisarcasms89Autor originalJun 18, 2011
You've made up your mind that if he is gay, he must be a certain way; if he presents himself in another way, he's trying to fit a "mold that clearly doesn't fit." He's must be the way YOU have decided he is. Congratulations! I'll bet you didn't know you're a closed-minded bigot.
Where... did I ever say they HAD to be like the people in the picture to be gay? I fully recognize that someone like NiMa is just as gay as I am and potentially just as gay as the people in the pictures are being alleged to be. I don't dress up in wigs and pantyhose either... but I don't think it's shameful to do so and I wouldn't be ashamed of someone doing so. Your point on people directly trying to offend someone else with their private sexual lives... really? You really think that someone would buy a sex toy called the Buddha because they think they're offending Buddhists? I mean I suppose if I took it to Tibet and found some mountain compound and pulled it out called it the "Big Buddha" and started going to town on it I'd be trying to offend Buddhists, but to just have it in my own home is my trying to be in your face? Some people do it because they find it amusing... and some because they legitimately find sexual pleasure in it. The pictures of that were taken at the Folsom street fair, if our dear NiMa is accurate on that anyway, which is a fetish fair... if you're offended by people having unique sexual fetishes you wouldn't be there to see it anyway. You can be however you want, just don't try to stop me from doing the same. We call that tolerance... some people prefer it that way, you should try it.
ReaccionarResponder - MUMultisarcasms89Autor originalJun 18, 2011[quote]Foolish, clueless little boy, they can't ignore me. They worship me far too much to stay away. Tiny Tom chases me around the forum looking for things to attack with blind rage. There are a few other of my disciples who gravitate to me like rock groupies but feign annoyance lest their idolatrous fawning becomes obvious. Rather than toying further with you disappointingly inept children, I'll offer this smilie to you so that you can express your love and admiration for me without being at a loss for words (a common failing in all those who attempt to compete with me).
Don't thank me for my kindness and beneficence. I have boundless compassion for my inferiors. In my magnificent wisdom, I understand the frustration that my underlings experience when they finally become aware that no matter how long they live, they will never be as great as me.[/quote]
To everyone but the man I quoted, if this isn't example enough to promote causes that help to stop the spread of hate IDK what is, to this poster, thank you for such a colorful illustration of why people like this need to be stopped. Check out FCKH8.com and donate to a good cause. If you're the type that just wants to donate in general I will say this probably isn't the place, although there is a contact page on the website where you could probably get directions on where to send such a donation, or you could research local gay rights movements and donate to those causes directly.ReaccionarResponder - NT
Jun 19, 2011Doubled the post sorry everyone - guess i hit the button or something twice.
ReaccionarResponder - NTJun 19, 2011Edited my own post what I said was offensive and uncalled for - I am sorry. I simply got caught up in the heat of the moment between this and an issue with another person on this site trying to get pictures of my son for a sick reasonYou have to take the group for what it is. They are a great group that is starting to take a new harder edge on the policy of accepting people, so no it is not for everyone just like Christianity is not for everyone or is being a Democrat or Republican. The program will no doubt offend some people, but if it helps some the effort was worth it. So watch the video, pass it on if you want, if not leave it alone no one is forcing you to put on the shirt or demanding you spread it around.ReaccionarResponder
- RE
Jun 19, 2011Brushing aside the swear words and flaming - The problem is to quote "the program will no doubt offend some people, but if it helps some the effort was worth it"
And when more are offended by this than the 'some' who are helped? What good has it done?ReaccionarResponder - NTJun 19, 2011
I am very sorry about what I said and I did reread some things and I did adjust my post. I am the big enough man to say that I was wrong for saying what I did and I am sorry, hopefully you can understand it comes from a place of sincerity and remorse.
My face pic is just a picture I took. I am not an all smiles kind of guy(I didn't smile in my senior pictures), it is just who I am. I do not think exploiting children is a good thing, but in this case I understand what they were getting at. I have a son and a "good standing member" here asked me last night if I would show him off on cam, and to let him see his parts - So I was fired up and pissy and I am sorry that I took that anger out in this forum. I respect children and do not wish harm to any of them.
As for the double post I am not sure what happend if i hit the button on accident but it was not ment to post twice - Which I have corrected now.
Lastly I am not a fan of black people using the N word when attacking each other, and I do not like it when gays toss fag and queer and twink and the likes at each other when they are pissed at one another. But again I am sorry NudeinMA I was out of line and I hope you can accept my appology.ReaccionarResponder - TX
Jun 19, 2011[quote]It gets personal when the public effects of the behavior of the faggots that the self-absorbed, ignorant punk cheerleads for creates a hatred for me as a gay man. He is ignorant. That is obvious. And he has no interest in doing anything positive. Between championing obscene behavior by in-your-face queers and telling us all to accept his strolling about in nudist venues with a stiff cock, he has not once in any of his posts said anything positive. [quote]Also, if you watch the videos there are some adorable children saying fuck and it's just... funny and cute at the same time.[/quote] Is that "adorable" and "cute" to you? "Can't we all just get along?" No, we cannot.[/quote] I don't find children using profanity, cute or funny. I find it offensive. I have not gone to the site selling, but offensive messages supporting a cause will do more harm to the cause than good. Behavior of the type I have heard of at gay pride will also turn people away. I have friends who are gay, they don't use offensive behavior to promote a cause, they gain more support by treating others with respect and definately don't try to "convert" someone to their way of life.ReaccionarResponder - REJun 19, 2011
It is good that on reflection some here can edit their distastefull posts, I wish more saw fit to do likewise.
NB, I would bow to your greater knowledge of youth but ask, (in the 18-30 range this may be acceptable) what about the majority of thinking adults (30-70) there are way more of us and we are not all ogres but then again we are not all liberal minded.ReaccionarResponder - MUMultisarcasms89Autor originalJun 19, 2011On the effectiveness of Internet campaigning, one would have said the exact same about television the first years it was coming out, and radio as well. People are on the internet all the time. Case in point, NiM and I with the help of a few others have been able to get about 75 posts on this topic and currently about 1400 views since I posted it maybe a week ago and this is a small niche Internet community. (BTW thank you, NiM, you have helped me spread the cause). The 2008 Obama campaign utilized social media network points. They managed to raise 2M dollars off of social networking alone... and are you ready for this? Each donation made was less than 200.00 and he also mobilized thousands of people to campaign on their own... I mean how many people did you see holding his red white and blue artsy picture with the word Change on it? Betty White was put on as a host for SNL, and why? Because some guy started a facebook campaign and there was so much support for it they called her and asked her. People LOVE controversy and people are pretty much hooked on the internet. I can get on it through children's game consoles, Wii and Xbox and Nintendo DS. I can get it on my Ipod and my smart phone. My stepmom has an E-book, the purpose of which is reading... and she can get on the internet on it and not just to download Tina Fey'sBossypants. This site is utilizing that... directly. Every time you Tweet or like this video on facebook they donate .25 to a good cause... do you know how easy it is to drum up support that way? Katy Perry just recently released a music video online for T.G.I.F. it's been online for one week and it's already got 22.5 MILLION views. If we go by that math, let's say it gets 10M posts/tweets... that's 2.5 million dollars raised simply by clicking a couple of buttons, not to mention the people who will see the video and actively donate to things. Now, the only stop on that is they've limited the amount they'll donate only up to 250,000 but that's so easy to get accomplished We live in a generation that exhonerates someone like Paris Hilton for saying "that's hot" do you really think fuck is going to make someone bat an eye? Another fact is that this is an internet campaign, and while a majority of the population might be 30-70 the majority of internet users, especially social media users, are still typically younger and fairly more liberal. When I was at gay pride I saw probably 100 people with these shirts on, and I was at a small pride and i wasn't looking for them. This campaign doesn't have to be big to be effective, think how many kids go trick-or-treating with Unicef donation buckets, they aren't making much off their route but it's still something and it still helps. Want to know what else helps? Being visible, showing your true colors whether other people like them or not. Take myself for example, there are a couple of users on this site who straight up have a problem with me... there are plenty more in comparison that send me private messages saying how they agree with me... and even if there weren't you can't stop me from being me, you're hate won't change me it'll just make me stronger. You really want to silence me? I mean... REALLY? I'll tell you how to do it, and it's so simple. (Ignore me). You can't go forward with something on your own, ignore me and report me to the powers that be if you think I'm doing something wrong... but this isn't proactive, you're promoting my message as much as you're sharing yours, and by using elevated nonsense you're peaking interest because people LOVE drama especially when it's at arm's length and they aren't actively involved. So you know what? I will wave my rainbow flag and walk downtown during a parade in underwear or a pink wig, and I will draw your attention. And when people see me raising attention without hurting anyone and see you trying to do the same but with attacks and awful, they'll be more likely to support me because no one likes hate. And just like FCKH8.com if you don't like what I have to say (I'm going to say it anyway) and because I haven't lost my cool and I haven't done anything negative like calling people queers or faggots I'll probably be received better... OH and a side point, NiM, black people using the word nigger is just as offensive and wrong as someone who isn't black using it and is just as disempowering. However, you have every right to use it, got to love freedom of speech, but if you want to talk about something that's going to push a movement back let's talk about using terms coined from derogatory places, how does referring to someone as "odd or unnormal" (queer) or "a bundle of sticks used for kindling when burning witches at the stake" (faggot) help move someone forward in anyway? All I see it doing is perpetuating fucked up hate (Oh SNAP, i just used a big word and promoted the sites message) and that doesn't seem helpful at all. So another shameless plug made possible by a negative response to this campaign, check out FCKH8.com to help support gay rights and look good doing it ^_^ReaccionarResponder
- NTJun 19, 2011
While I know several of you do not like the program and the way it is going about spreading its word I did think it was worth noting that the guy behind the website and the video has done several other things that are worth mentioning.
His name is Luke Montgomery, he is a non-profit media campaigner. Some of his credits include being the founder of WECANBUILDANDORPHANGE.COM helping children with AIDs, the webdesigner for CAUSECOMANDOS.COM Hayti Earthquake Reliefe, Creator of NODISPOSABLEPETS.COM, Founder of ADOPT-A-PET.COM and others. He has been named in Advocates 40 under 40, been featured on 'THE VIEW", "THE DAILY SHOW", on with LENO, Letterman, Walters, and plenty more including Stern. He has been profiles in USAToday and on the front page of other major outlets.
I just wanted everyone to know that the guy that is responsible for this video and program is not just another flake - the guy is doing real work for great causes. So it does add a much greater level of crediblity to what he is doing and promoting.ReaccionarResponder - NTJun 19, 2011[quote][quote]Why don't you tone down your pompous, patronising posts or GTFO out of this site? Seriously, you are one of the most arrogant and conceited people I've ever encountered on a forum.[/quote] It was inevitable that a consummate ass like you would drag the thread back into the sewer. Jeez. How about confining yourself to rec.nude and leaving the serious stuff to the grownups?[/quote] NIM - There is no way to ever have a open discussion when you refuse to even remotely act as though you are open to understand someone elses view on a situation - not accepting but acknowledging that they have valid view. So I guess with that said I tell you good day, and goodbye - it would have been nice to have an open conversation with you thart did not attempt to make me feel stupid(which neither you or anyone in here can make me feel) but it is not going to happen because instead of talking you come off as mean. I honestly doubt that is what you planned, or at least i hope you didn't, but I am afraid that is how it is viewed and not only by me. I opened up and told you I respected your thoughts but it is obvious you will not engage in something equally as polite.ReaccionarResponder
- SOJun 20, 2011NiMA said: 'When what someone else does in public reflects negatively on me, even though I have no part in it, then is that person doing what is best for the community or just for himself'?Nothing anyone else says in public could reflect more negatively/badly on you than what you yourself do NiMA, for that you really can't be beat!ReaccionarResponder
