LOOKING FOR HELP TO PROMOTE THE NUDE LIFESTYLE

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• WO

  

  woodsman21

  Jul 17, 2021

  Trkrbob1 wrote: [quote] it is common knowledge that women thru demeaning men of all ages in regard to alleged voyeurism or sexualizing and or about hitting on women , has in affect become the norm to discriminate against men and thusly it has become accepted that women are seen as victimized! [/quote] One of the things that's become painfully apparent in the last few years is that womenhavebeen victimized. They become objects of sexual attraction from the time they start growing breasts, and it continues until it gets to where they're "of a certain age" and no longer as attractive to men. That's a simple fact of life. I don't find it surprising that most women regard men who want to see them naked with suspicion, regardless of the motives the men have. This is why I feel that men have to out of their way to let people know that their motives are based in a sincere love of nudism and a respect for women. It's much like adopting a rescue dog whose previous owners have been rough on her. She'll need a lot of un-conditioning before she realizes that a hand extended to her is for petting her rather than striking her. That said, I do agree that while it's up to the men to behave themselves, it's up to women in power to recognize and respect those men who are willing to act decently, and will not paint all men with the same broad brush of suspicion. I've met a lot of women who do just that.

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• NU

  nudeyooper

  Jul 21, 2021

  Some observations from a trip to a clothing optional beach.
  It was the middle of the day in the middle of the week which may make some difference as to who was there. Some were single men as was I. Other guys were part of a couple, but there were few single women there. The women tended to come and go in groups. There were adults of all ages with the vast majority of college age into their 30's. Some of us went into the water to swim others just waded in. Some guys wore shorts, most were nude, and all of the women I noticed were topless with a few wearing a bikini bottom.
  Not that this is from a scientific study but it does indicate somewhat that young people are enjoying nude time not related to sex. My thought is that for them finances are more of a struggle and they would choose to spend what money they have in places other than resorts. Public beaches and parks may be the preferred venue if only there were enough of them close to home or work and they are easy to get to. This beach had very limited parking and it was not very large to begin with.
  As for those 25 year olds that were mentioned in a previous post who thought that skinny dipping was gross. I would bet that if they were guys who were coaxed by a girlfriend, they would strip down without hesitation.
  If there are to be more places designated as nudity allowed, I believe there would be more naked people in the open. To get those places, it takes concentrated effort and good communication. It is the strength in numbers thing. It would take the kind of organization like the WNBR has to set aside a day at a particular beach and for a large group of people to not only attend, but participate. WNBR is not necessarily tolerated by even a majority, but it has grown to a point where people travel some distance to participate and though the law against nudity may still stand, it is a constitutional right to protest and be naked doing it.

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• LO

  

  logansport_nudistصاحب المنشور

  Jul 21, 2021

  Nudeyooper - What an insightful post. There is a lot of truth in what you say here. What is needed is creative ways at drawing attention while at the same time providing realistic ways for participation. Lets find a way for others to want to rediscover what we already have.

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• NU

  nudeyooper

  Jul 23, 2021

  Another thought that came to me recently. It could help promote and it could bring the law against us.
  Most of us have places where we can be nude though not on official nudist or clothing optional territory. I have a preferred beach on Lake Superior and have gotten away without incident at a couple of others. I was the only one there and have shared the location with nobody. The beach is open to the public, but I've never met another person using while nude.

  Do we share information on where these places are and if so how? Do we keep them secret so they do not become over crowded or draw attention to law enforcement? Even though laws may be violated by our nudity, do groups of naked people go free because the community allows it and law enforcement has no interest in it unless people are behaving badly?

  Though this is speculation on my part, I am assuming that the beaches that have become clothing optional were made that way simply because groups of people took their clothes off and nobody objected. Then when enough people began to use the space, they petitioned the local government or won a court case to designate the area nude legal.

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• MI

  

  minimalist75

  Jul 23, 2021

  NJ at one time had several known clothing optional locations, but the Whitman administration stopped allowing this.

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• FU

  

  FullSun

  Jul 23, 2021

  I dont think there is a single general answer as to how nude beaches became nude beaches. Local and state laws as well as local culture come into play as to how accepted it is for a beach to be designated as a nude beach or even quietly used as one. My understanding is that some beaches are in more secluded areas or more laid back culturally and started being used by hippies and others in the 1960s and have been accepted as being nude beaches. However others have been hard fought for by local nudist organizations trying to get a place where they can go while others probably fall into the middle where they have traditionally been nude but as population density increased they had to be fought for to maintain them as being nude.

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• WO

  

  woodsman21

  Jul 23, 2021

  I think that FullSon's response pretty much covered what I was going to say. I would advise that you make contact with The Naturist Society, because they have people who are expert on this sort of thing. (And you should join them anyway, because you can get discounts on entry fees to many of the resorts and such.)

  They had a great article in one of their recent newsletters about how people in Florida legitimatized Haulover Beach as a clothing-optional beach. The organizers used several approaches: legal venues, public campaigns, and community service (they cleaned up the beach, and have been keeping it clean of litter). I heard something else: when they paid for something like groceries or fast food or gas from local businesses, they paid in two-dollar bills (yes, they're still around). When the banks started collecting a lot of these, the businesses realized how much of an impact these nudist customers had on their bottom line.

  Of course, a lot of the businesses weren't happy about having to deal with those bills, because their cash drawers weren't segmented to allow for them. But then I remembered that, once upon a time, you used to see quarters painted with pink nail polish from time to time. I found out that these were used in juke-boxes, and were provided by the owners of the devices. When they installed them in a bar or restaurant or whatever, they would give the managers a bunch of these painted quarters. The idea was that the quarters would be used to "prime the pump," so to speak, and encourage patrons to keep the music going with their own quarters. When the coin boxes were emptied, the owners would separate the painted quarters and give them back to the managers, and keep the rest as their profit.

  It occurred to me that painting change with nail polish in a similar way would serve the same purpose as those two-dollar bills. You'd use them when you were patronizing businesses in the area of the nudist beach. When the businesses realized how much of their revenue depended on your patronage, they'd be more likely to be on your side when the serious talk about legalization started.

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• NU

  nudeyooper

  Jul 23, 2021

  You could probably do the same with one dollar coins. They are hard for the tooth fairy to get because there is little to no demand for them.

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• LO

  

  logansport_nudistصاحب المنشور

  Jul 24, 2021

  I think we are all missing something here. Our biggest issue is that people in general still have a negative perception of the nude social movement. People have tolerated isolated instances involving nudity largely because they are not ongoing, not an issue that interferes with their lives on a daily basis. They read a news article or view a newscast with indifference because tomorrow, its going to be like it never happened. More often than not, authorities handle it like a low profile incident and react in a manner that provides enough satisfaction of a response that's designed to limit any controversial aspect. Skinny dippers get warned, sometimes blatant offenses are brought to court but overall nothing happens that change anyone's perceptive values. Its a revolving concept all over these United States!

  I'm not sure what the solution is in changing the perceptions of nudity, just that what we have been doing is not working. I've been looking at a similar lifestyle phenomenon that's made a drastic change of the publics perception and acceptance: The Gay movement. Remember back in the 80's it was a common belief that Gays are what caused AIDS? In the beginning, you would have been crazy to admit you were gay due to the vile negative judgements that were perpetuated from virtually every other culture or lifestyle out there. But today, it has attained more attention and positive inclusivity than expected. They have hopped aboard the LBGTQ movement and today if you dared treat them like they were back in the 80's, you'd be chastised for it. And now we have all these new types of "gender" labels that's supposed to be respected. Personally I don't understand most of it, but my point here is the Gay movement was able to dig out of a big hole and has at least made enough of a comeback to be considered eligible for the respect of a valid lifestyle. Don't get me wrong, there are still a lot of people out there that do not accept Gays in any way, shape, or form. There's still a lot for them to overcome and feel more accepted to the point of feeling safer in general society. So my question here is what happened? When did the tide start to bring about the changes required to carry through the evolving perceptive values among society?

  If a concentrated movement like the gay lifestyle, which had a very high negative associative value among the established norms of society, can have a rebirth like this, what's stopping us? At the very least, I think nudism had greater stature in society back in the 80's, and for the most part it still does today. But the lifestyles exist based on different foundational values that society looks at in different ways. Both lifestyles have endured similar struggles relating to sexual perceptions - which neither of them has been able to conquer yet.

  We shouldn't be afraid to be who we are. We know that all the fears associated with our lifestyle are not based on truth. In fact all anti-nude laws are reflections of people with a misconstrued understanding of what our own nudity is all about. Its what they "perceive" in their own minds that truly reflect the evil of what it is that they truly fear. Its not us, its them for thinking the way that they do. Does any of this make sense to you?

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• WO

  

  woodsman21

  Jul 24, 2021

  Yes, it does.

  The gay acceptance phenomenon happened because of legal challenges, but I think that the real impetus was seeing people in all walks of life coming out as gay, and gay people being portrayed in the media as being the same as anybody else in their interest in steady relationships and in their not intruding on other people's lives.

  And there's the fact that there's a high percentage of gay or bi people around. Estimates are all over the map, but I've heard that 10% is not unrealistic. On the other hand, "public" nudists form a tiny fraction of 1%, and the precise figure is still a mystery since nobody has done a real survey of them, AFAIK. (I'm saying "public" to differentiate them from a greater number of people who go nude in their own homes or with close friends, but don't patronize public beaches or resorts.)

  So we don't have a very loud voice in the marketplace of ideas. But, as the Haulover Beach experience showed, maybe there are enough of us to make an economic difference, and to convince people that turning over areas for nudism isn't going to turn their communities into hotbeds of perversion. That's really all we're asking.

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• NU

  nudeyooper

  Jul 24, 2021

  [quote]Yes, it does. The gay acceptance phenomenon happened because of legal challenges, but I think that the real impetus was seeing people in all walks of life coming out as gay, and gay people being portrayed in the media as being the same as anybody else in their interest in steady relationships and in their not intruding on other people's lives. And there's the fact that there's a high percentage of gay or bi people around. Estimates are all over the map, but I've heard that 10% is not unrealistic. On the other hand, "public" nudists form a tiny fraction of 1%, and the precise figure is still a mystery since nobody has done a real survey of them, AFAIK. (I'm saying "public" to differentiate them from a greater number of people who go nude in their own homes or with close friends, but don't patronize public beaches or resorts.) So we don't have a very loud voice in the marketplace of ideas. But, as the Haulover Beach experience showed, maybe there are enough of us to make an economic difference, and to convince people that turning over areas for nudism isn't going to turn their communities into hotbeds of perversion. That's really all we're asking.[/quote] That's is was I was getting at too. The big question is then how do we get enough of us concentrated in one place to make the voice heard? I live in a community of about five thousand with only twenty thousand in the county. We have beaches and national forest land, but I've never come across another who was using them clothes free. The law is not on our side and that may be a factor too.

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• CA

  

  carrabelle

  Jul 25, 2021

  I have had the same experience you talk of. I like your way of looking for things to promote nudism and hope that your sons will see growth in this area. Being in Florida, I know of no WNBR event. I would love to be in one and enjoy the excitement to not be afraid, but proud. I love riding with no shirt with the air flow and wish I could also remove my shorts.

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• LO

  

  logansport_nudistصاحب المنشور

  Jul 26, 2021

  I am really pleased with the response to my feed on helping promote the nude lifestyle. Currently 15 different members have provided personal insight that has given me valuable information and I have already applied some things into my blog as I get ready to open it up to the world. One thing that I am a little disappointed in is that I haven't gotten any responses from any women. I believe its crucially important that any effort to promote things should include the female dynamic. The only way that will happen is if they provide some significant insight as we look for ways to be successful in promoting things. Those of you who are reading this, if you know of ANY female nudists, encourage them to read over my feed and add their two cents. It doesn't matter how involved in nudism they are or any other of the varying characteristics that exists among females. All views matter and will go a long way towards building a strong foundation in anything we do. And this might sound a little incredulous here, but even someone who is more textile bound could give is feedback that helps us incorporate our efforts in becoming more acceptable to others.

  I was thinking about some non-traditional ways at presenting nudism to "outsiders" as a means towards reaching acceptance at a greater level so that its legitimacy becomes more acknowledgeable. What do you think about making this effort a non-profit designation? I know there's a lot that goes into these kinds of things and requires serious organizational structure, but if there's enough support out there and people willing to assist me in establishing such a thing, then I'm willing to dig in and do the required research and at the appropriate time, be the lead in formulating things. What I'm asking from you right now is, do you think that such an idea can work from the concept of promoting both nude socialization and body acceptance? A lot of you have more experience out there and have a better feel on how the wind blows within the confines of this lifestyle, so please let me know your thoughts because if this seems like a viable concept, I'd really like to make it a huge part of my whole blogging experience. Looking forward to what all of you have to say!

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• FU

  

  FullSun

  Jul 26, 2021

  Have you talked to TNS, The Naturist Society, its a non profit that has as part of it NEF, Naturist Education Foundation. It might be worth getting involved so you dont spend time reinventing the wheel but instead add your ideas and efforts to make the whole effort better.

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• WO

  

  woodsman21

  Jul 26, 2021

  FullSun wrote: [quote]Have you talked to TNS, The Naturist Society, its a non profit that has as part of it NEF, Naturist Education Foundation. It might be worth getting involved so you don't spend time reinventing the wheel but instead add your ideas and efforts to make the whole effort better.[/quote] I would go further: find out where the TNS and AANR are holding organizational meetings and try to attend them and listen to the seminars, and try to talk to some of the people in charge. We on the sidelines can suggest things, but the people who are actually doing stuff might give you better advice and insight. These organizations usually list the upcoming meetings on their web site. And the AANR, at least, have regional meetings all over the country.

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• RA

  

  randsnudist

  Jul 27, 2021

  We have traveled the country far and wide... probably have been to more nudist resorts overall than most... OUR experience in INDIANA was very very strange... WE visited Sunshower - very nice place.... did an interview of the owner for TNS magazine for which I use to write... HE and HIS wife both stated that their very own children don't even know they own a nudist resort... Imagine the will reading when ta dah.... hey kids you own a nudist resort... We have discovered each region/state have there own standards and customs when it comes to nudism. FL - varies county by county (PASCO Co.... numerous resorts) East Coast has 4 clothing optional beaches -

  I have mentioned before that NUDISM / Nudity has become the last taboo::: MARRY a monkey / no problem... transgender / all good... kick an old lady / poor decision... GO OUTSIDE NUDE and possibly with others who may actually see your genitals / OH HELL NO - are you some kind of pervert???

  We have many Pilipino friends and the Pilipino women especially avoid darkening in the sun as a sign of status... darker bad / poor... AND we can thank all of the wonderful missionaries that went out in to the natural world and taught nudity is bad / parts of your body are bad... I wish you the best in your endeavor to make the world a more NUDIST friendly world - AANR would be a great source of information...

  BEST WISHES

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• FU

  

  FullSun

  Jul 27, 2021

  The experiences by stoneandy and some others do not represent all experiences or club environments. What Ive seen at Laguna Del Sol over the years is pretty significant growth in the number of people visiting except since COVID. I regularly see many single guys, some single women, children, some with one parent, some with both, gay couples, the whole mix. Stoneandy, I seriously doubt you would have trouble attending with your children unless there are other issues or attitudes that we dont know about here. From what I see here is that it definitely appears to be a local or regional culture issue at a club level, not a National or national organization issue.

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• RA

  

  randsnudist

  Jul 27, 2021

  You cannot force privately held clubs to welcome anyone they do not want to be included... I TOTALLY agree they are missing a giant market as many wives don't or won't participate in nudism.... WHAT we really need is a NATIONAL movement to get over BODY SHAMING and stop sexualizing the human body... WE are far from a normal M/F couple... WE have found the gay campground way more welcoming than most of the AANR / TNS involved clubs! AS we have begun to recover from CoVid - we have seen a tremendous up tick in people getting involved in the nudist lifestyle... The clothing optional / nudist beaches on the East Coast of FL as packed every weekend. Fourth of July there were over 400 nudist / naturist accepting folks on the tiny little spot PASSAGE KEY at the mouth of Tampa Bay. We've been to Cypress Cove and there was no spots left of RV's and huge crowds around the pool. I feel for those of you who have been discriminated on in the past and currently... AND maybe it is a regional type thing... we have seen every type of couple / throuple / single male / female /trans combination possible at most (if not ALL) the local resorts we have attended within the last 8 months....

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• LO

  

  logansport_nudistصاحب المنشور

  Jul 28, 2021

  There have been many valuable points taken among the postings here. One thing I have noticed a lot of, is the manner in which we perceive things is not a uniform way in having a realistic understanding of what is being discussed. Here we are, within a nudist environment, having varying degrees of how a particular topic is being assessed. Imagine how those outside a nude environment come to their conclusions. Right or wrong, how we perceive things are the basis of our arguments when having these discussions. One recent comment concerning the AANR caught my attention,
  "...because it is set up to promote nudism as a business model, and not all the people who pursuing it as a business are as tolerant as others". Nudism as a business.... that concept doesnt surprise me, but if this is in fact true, then the true original purpose of its founding becomes obscure and its focus is no longer clearly defined. If this effort has proven successful, then there is no initiative to change it. Then it comes down to whats more important, the money or the cause? Some will argue that you cant have one without the other, especially since nearly every aspect of our lives revolves around the need for money. I dont see any worthwhile organization abandoning any monetizing efforts in order to keep it alive. But when this happens, it should be structured as a separate entity. The true focus should stay on the purpose intended and that any financial aspect are separated outside of its mission.

  Getting back to perceptions, its very easy to become fooled. Sometimes what we think we see or observe does not completely represent the true nature of everything. Perceptions should only be relied on to the extent that they are nothing more than pieces to a larger picture. That is precisely what we are fighting from those outside the realms of our lifestyle. From my own point of view, I have always seen AANR as the predominate representation for the nudist lifestyle. It has a lot of historic value in keeping some sustenance for nudity outside the confines of the social norms which are restricting it. But if the perception of a "business model" proves to be true, it will no longer maintain the face of legitimacy for nudism.

  The point is, our perceptions can become tainted if were not careful in the way we support those thoughts. There needs to be a reasonable grounding in these thought processes so that if we want others to have an accurate understanding of where we are coming from, it gives more credibility to what is being said. In the example I quoted above, there was additional information supporting that thought which is why I personally took note of it and with personal introspection was able to understand this position and gain some clarity for myself. That clarity has not been presented to the general social structure in America. Just because we know and appreciate what true nudism is about doesn't automatically transfer to others. More importantly, the negative association towards nudity may seem somewhat abated in some places, but overall its perception has not changed. To that end, I consider it a failure for organizations such as the AANR and the TNS in helping improve the status of nudity in our lives. Much more needs to be done but relying on any business model is not the answer.

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• HA

  

  harkeck2

  Aug 10, 2021

  If you don't think the resorts are the problem, then your research needs awakening. We are a couple nd frequent nude resorts in FL. When a couple daily rate is $30 on a weekend and a single male is $175, thats discrimination.

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• HA

  

  harkeck2

  Aug 10, 2021

  This past Sunday, the Tampa Bay Times published a two page article on nude recreation highlighting resorts in the local area.They also quoted AANR statistics concerning the age demographics of nudists and highlighted that the 60's and 70's generations were the old core of nudists but since covid, the youger demographics of the under 30 age group has increased dramatically.

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• LO

  

  logansport_nudistصاحب المنشور

  Aug 10, 2021

  I never said the resorts were not a part of the problem... in fact they are exactly the reason some issues remain, such as discriminatory practices against single men. The issue extends beyond just the resorts. When we have 2 organizations that are implicit in being the organizational arm of nudism, then that requires responsibility far beyond just making a profit. From where I sit, they are ethically bound to do whatever is reasonable in promoting and even expanding nude social opportunities. If they are taking such initiatives, it is not apparent to others that this is happening. At the same time, since resorts are free to impose discriminatory requirements, there really is no incentive for them to act differently.
  If that article was accurate and the pandemic led to some increase in attendance and memberships, that is great. But it really needs to be evaluated further so that we can know if the factors for this is controllable or if it was simply an opportunity due to pandemic conditions. If its is an otherwise controllable issue, then once it is identified, perhaps it can be applied to other communities in improving things. I'll take anything that positively increases the nude social opportunities for anyone. Hopefully there will be some feedback on this that can be shared with the rest of us in the future.

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• NU

  nudeyooper

  Aug 10, 2021

  An increase in nude friendly places is going to be necessary for the opportunities to grow. I am unwilling to drive four to five hours to the nearest resort and pay for the priviledge to take all of my clothes off. Like most anything, economics drive the establisment and expansion of places to go and things to do. AANR and TNS may be helpful in getting greater numbers at resorts, but resorts are not necessarily where people want to go. It was mentioned above that they cater to the 60's and 70's crowd. Even though I am in that age group they don't offer what I would pay money for, especially if as a single male I would have a surcharge.
  There will be growth when public spaces are declared nude acceptable. People will utilize them and spend their money at nearby stores and places to eat and drink.
  I pay for annual state park entrance, some of which are big enough to have separate areas for nude beaches and campgrounds. When I do go to the parks, I buy gas for my car, food for my meals, and treats that I normally do not buy at all. Silent sports are attractions too. Kayaks, canoes, and water toys to rent, will bring in more revenue. Perhaps, textiles who have never considered being nude will venture to the areas that permit nudity and like all of us, they will enjoy it.
  I suggest rallies organized for specifice times on specific days are the way to start this kind of growth with the provision that a protest is being made. Though we do not have the constutional right to just be naked, we do have the right to protest and be naked as long as they occur at the same time.

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• LO

  

  logansport_nudistصاحب المنشور

  Aug 11, 2021

  There are many valid points between Stoneandy and Nudeyooper, but I get the feeling here that there really isn't enough incentive to get others to come together and create enough pressure for some changes. Internally, the status quo appears to be satisfied enough in that there is no reason to operate in a different way. Externally, our way of life is not essential enough to worry about. Regardless of how people feel about nudism, the general feeling seems to be that what little nudism there is doesn't impact on societies ability to maintain their own status quo. So it humors things by moving on with life as if it wasn't even there. I think a greater potential lies in what Nudeyooper suggests as rallies. But not just any rally. One that generates an interest to the point that its impact wakes up those that reside around us. Once there is more acceptable ways of nudity that outsiders can participate in, the more likelihood it is that there will be greater interest into what the lifestyle is all about.

  Another valid point is the convenience of being able to go nude. I dont want have to spend hours to drive somewhere or settle on the fact that one can only afford to do such things once or twice a year. Getting nude shouldn't have to take a vacation. Honestly, I would rather to be able to simply go out in my own back yard nude and bathe in what mother nature has to give - fresh air, warm breezes, gentle sunshine. Even more importantly, having the option to invite others to join in and bask in the glory of all that nudity! But that's not likely to happen unless you have a fenced in area not open to outside inspection. Right now, people don't feel free enough to express an interest that's supportive of nude oriented activity - even those who believe in these ideas. The fallout from openly supporting an idea that seems socially frowned on can be more than what they can bear.

  We can organize as many rallies as we want - its an excellent idea - but unless the perceptive value of nudism begins to change, the majority of those that attend such things will be established nudists already. The more rally's we have though, the greater the potential will be in changing this perception. In the meantime, we also need to make this lifestyle more user friendly. The fees associated with being a part of things are really too high. Maintaining discriminatory policies against select members/participants should result in definitive consequences for those that choose to do so. I wish I was 20 or 30 years younger because I'd be willing to help establish a more responsive organization that resorts and members would want to be a part of, that had greater authority in making sure that appropriate policies and rules would be followed. The AANR and TNS are not set up as a entity designed to keep things headed in the right direction. They seem to lack the focus and resolve to regulate a community that greatly needs it in order to survive. We need younger blood in leadership roles that will help propel nudist initiatives in a way that will be receptive to everyone, not just certain dynamics that seem prevalent to the way things are today.

  I sincerely hope that something materializes soon because what we have today may not be the same tomorrow.

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