Lee, I point out that you have four recent threads on TN that have a sexual content and I call it a pattern of behaviour. You call this slander (please look up the definition of this word) the word you should have used is libel. And as its fact that these threads exist disproves libel.
Rather than wanting to discredit you Im doing the exact opposite, Im crediting you with those four threads.
Everything I post on TN about naturism comes from my personal experience of over twenty years of meeting and just being around other naturist. My mantra has always been that naturist act exactly the same as textiles. Turning the conversation to sex at every opportunity is creepy even if youre wearing trousers.
Sexuality in naturism is the same as sexuality in textile, why dont people get this? Thats the debate you should have.
In my experience is a phrase I use often, it means things Ive experienced with people Ive known in the read world. If you see a personal attack in something Ive said without directly mentioning you by name , thats down to you misunderstanding the words Ive typed.
Im not trying to teach people how to be a naturist, Im only telling you how naturist behave. I hope this has been a educated post and I now hope you at least know the difference between slander and libel.
Lee, regarding your last paragraph, what real word experience do you have of puritanical naturists and their views? Is there such a thing as a puritanical naturist. Is this not a contradiction?
A couple are having sex on the beach, it does not matter if they are naked or dressed, sex is still happening. Some observers may clap and cheer, some will think, oh my god what about the children and some will think, thats not right in a public place. It does not matter if the observers are naturist or textile the reactions will be the same.
Social media has given people the option to express their opinion on something with very little or no experience and expect it to have the same validity as people who have been observing it in the real world for decades.
This and other sites are full of men whove never experienced social naturism so have a slanted view of what it is. And its them that want to pervert that view to suit their own particular kink.
Thats not a puritanical view, thats written fact in the threads posted on here.
This is a long-standing topic in naturism and its worth remembering the origins of the culture you referred to; what might be called the naturist movement in the german free body culture of the early twentieth century. The truth, that some naturists airbrush out, is that alongside celebrating the nude body, this movement also celebrated exercise, fitness, and yes, sex. So it seems that open lovemaking was regarded positively in that time and place. What this reveals is that the high minded self-styled naturist know-it-alls have a knowledge thats as limited as their world view and manners.
As someone who has done extensive reading on the history of naturism and FKK I would be interested if you can cite one source for you assertion of free sex being a key part of the FKK free body culture. Any book, paper, article from a naturist writer past present or otherwise would be helpful
The contrasts are extreme at times, and why that is, is curious.In the early 20th century as Em points out, they experience a movement in Germany of being natural and free, shedding their clothes in public and enjoying nature as God intended, but across the pond, women are wearing full battle armor at the beach. Are the extremes any different today?
Something I learned I high school was when quoting a source it is good to validate with a source that is a primary not secondary source otherwise you may generate arguments based on inaccurate information. Today Some people call that fake news. The the person and information cited here can be described as inaccurate at best and misleading at worst. The German free body culture was not about shedding clothes as an end to itself. Much more intentionally it was intended to address the disconnect from nature and the lack of health that came with the consequence of the industrialization of the day. The focus of the FKK movement was health and well being including healthy eating no smoking drinking and lots of exercise without clothing. One reference to validate is The Nudists by Donald Johnson and following my high school English teachers instructions here is another Modern Nudism by Maurice Parmelee and finally Naked Germany Health Race Nation book cover attached
Lee, regarding your last paragraph, what real word experience do you have of puritanical naturists and their views? Is there such a thing as a puritanical naturist. Is this not a contradiction?A couple are having sex on the beach, it does not matter if they are naked or dressed, sex is still happening. Some observers may clap and cheer, some will think, oh my god what about the children and some will think, thats not right in a public place. It does not matter if the observers are naturist or textile the reactions will be the same.
You make my point I present in the opening post! It's all about the culture! Is there a right or wrong with either of the scenarios? Those who clap and cheer, or those who think it's not right. Culture is the determining factor. Who's culture is right and whose culture is wrong? Either way is there some hypocrisy there? That is the question I pose to those who share either view. (BTW you need to work on your grammar and punctuation!) (also "puritanical naturist" Is purely a metaphorical term....you all get it!)
Regarding HCF's comment about the foundational beliefs of the FKK, (BTW thank you for your clarification) You totally miss the point of the hypocrisy I point out in the opening post and it's not truly relevant regarding the freedom of expressing and the perceived impression of that freedom through the lens of culture. That is the purpose of the OP. Different viewpoints of different sects of nudism! Is one more "right" than the other? Just because it is the way it has been for some is not the reason for the way it should be, or continue to be!
This is the debate!
Thank you for sharing all your input and ideas...it's very interesting reading the articulation of the many thoughts and positions. As a small addition to the discussion, many years ago in an upper level undergrad political science or management course (I don't remember which), the professor noted that "where you stand depends upon where you sit". This can easily be seen in most meetings or groups...they self segregate into little collections of like minded people. And then....sometimes they jump into the fray, either politely or not. I see the posts as an extension of the afore...please keep it coming.
What does all this mean..... it means that there is no controversy. There is no Vs between nudism and sexuality. Sexuality exists in both textile and nudist lifestyles.The only great controversy is why so many men decide to become naturists in their 50s and join a website to discuss sex. (Or their own personal fetish)Once again you covered the response to this perfectly. Exposing the silly and ridiculous small minded focus of some men on this site who seem to have no life beyond talking about sex and no thoughts that rise beyond the head located Below the waist
And you prove the point perfectly yourself ! Small minded focus of some men on this site. You looked at my profile, after I looked at yours and you have blocked me, am sure I can guess why, but don't flatter yourself. Standing there in your caravan pissing out of the door, talk about Hypocritical
I studied in Germany and experienced FKK first hand, but always felt it had more a clinical than a sexual view of the human body. So I read the German wikipedia entry on FKK and it stated this (translated) regarding its attitude to sexuality: "Sexual arousal is thus a learned reaction, which is associated with nudity in the Christian Western culture. In contrast to mainstream culture, nudity is not sexual in the context of free-body culture and therefore does not constitute a sexual stimulus per se." In addition, here's a quote of the FKK view of naked exercise; "The naturalistic movement was not about the sexualization of the body, but about health and the idea of freeing people from shame, as well as social inequality and the unhealthy living conditions in overpopulated cities during the beginning of industrialization."
Now I believe that arousal is a natural rather than a learned reaction, and I don't believe that nudity can lose its sexual nature especially in exercise. However, stimuli and reactions can be controlled, and Germans are good at that without being repressed and Puritanical. They simply have a naked nonsexual time and a naked sexual time defined, and the two don't meet. Therefore, if FKK celebrates lovemaking, my belief is that it's likely in the confines of private time and space.
You just proved my point you quote just out of context with not actual reference to back it up mixing opinion belief with offhand quotes from unnamed sources with any sense of what The relevance of the quote is to your point or how it supports your assertion SMH
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