Code, I look at every request we get. If it comes without a message Ill still look, but if the sender cant be bothered to include a message I dont bother sending them one.
If there is a message (non sleazy) like hi, Ill send a hi back, if it leads to a conversation fine but sometimes I think people are so surprised to get a reply they freeze up.
Ive come to the conclusion that America naturism (With Woodsmans help) is something quite different from European naturism. It seems to be more natural and relaxed here, we dont seem to encounter the same issues often raised (pun intended) on this site. Or at least no where near as often.
Code, I look at every request we get. If it comes without a message Ill still look, but if the sender cant be bothered to include a message I dont bother sending them one.If there is a message (non sleazy) like hi, Ill send a hi back, if it leads to a conversation fine but sometimes I think people are so surprised to get a reply they freeze up.Ive come to the conclusion that America naturism (With Woodsmans help) is something quite different from European naturism. It seems to be more natural and relaxed here, we dont seem to encounter the same issues often raised (pun intended) on this site. Or at least no where near as often.
Youre clearly living in a different Europe to the rest of us. LOL.
Its fascinating Stevie, that, from your extensive experience and knowledge, youve concluded theres a difference between American and European naturist men. What a unique perspective! Itd be interesting to know from when you checked out the profiles of your friend requests from single men ( the ones who wanted to have sex with one or both of you ) what proportionS of the 400 requests you didnt accept but have saved up were American and European?
Im just wondering if our American brothers have more going on down there than us Europeans or are we all the same? Like .... could it really be that were ALL the same?? Like ... is it possible that were all ... like ... just ... men? Could it even be that we all deserve equal respect? Even ... I cant bear to write the word! .... Okay ... here goes! ... Im going to write it! .... even SINGLE males? Could it even be that men of different races, sexual orientations, socio-economic categories, libidos ... and relationship statuses(!!!) ... are ... ... ... equal??? ....And should be treated with equal respect? Could it even be that we all deserve that equal respect and treatment regardless of anyones opinions ( including yours )?
I'm just wondering if our American brothers have more going on down there than us Europeans or are we all the same? Like .... could it really be that were ALL the same?? Like ... is it possible that were all ... like ... just ... men? Could it even be that we all deserve equal respect? Even ... I cant bear to write the word! .... Okay ... here goes! ... Im going to write it! .... even SINGLE males? Could it even be that men of different races, sexual orientations, socio-economic categories, libidos ... and relationship statuses(!!!) ... are ... ... ... equal??? ....And should be treated with equal respect? Could it even be that we all deserve that equal respect and treatment regardless of anyones opinions ( including yours )?
Yes, Em, we deserve equal respect, and can't let the trolls out there trip us up. United we stand and divided we are conquereed. I am so grateful for the few true friends that I have made on TN. I can't speak of what it means to be a orthodox nudist because to me nudism is about being without, not with, and respect and empathy for others. But nudism does seem to inspire orthodox acceptance and friendship.
It's also about finding strenght in vulnerability. I have two passports, have lived in three countries and travelled to many others, and do believe in an international brotherhood or global single men's army. When my exwife's hormones changed from her pregnancies, she was no longer the woman I married and I suddenly became someone she "had not signed up for." It's been primarily single men who supported me to be the father my sons deserve and the role models my sons need because I can't do it alone. My mother-in-law, who stepped up as my coparent to compensate for her daughter's mental health struggles, also recognizes this. Married men have also provided support and brotherhood, though many feel conflict with their wives, particularly if they tend to be controlling types.
You are absolutely right Em, let us respect, support and affrim one another, all labels aside! We need one another and got where we are thanks to our support and will continue to require that as change in life is inevitable no matter how hard we push back at it. Thanks for your wonderful articulation and brothershood spirit - you're a blessing as the man you are.
Woodsman suggested the difference in attitude to me in another thread. He is American who has spent time in Europe so I accepted his greater knowledge.
Remember the old story about the blind men investigating an elephant, and coming up with different metaphors? I think that our examination of the subject is like that. We're seeing different aspects of the culture in different lands and are always risking the danger that we're extrapolating what we see.
And I think Jehoram was the one that differentiated between the older, more organized culture and the newer, more free-form culture, and how the two didn't really associate or overlap with each other. But it does correspond with what I've seen.
And I have no experience with English nudism, or with any European nudism, except for what I saw in Germany ca 1970. But that was a different time ... we were all young, and we were all exploring barriers and identifying with a counter-culture that said, "If you want to smoke dope or drop acid or take your clothes off, feel free. We'll be there for you." So we did all of those things. And we were there for each other.
People who didn't understand that culture called us "hippies," a term that was coined by a journalist in San Francisco. We didn't like it much, and preferred to be nameless, although we did kinda like the term "freeks" ... free and freaky. If we needed a fancy name for it, we called it the "counter-culture."
We hated that song "If You Come to San Francisco" and other "hippie" anthems. Instead, we listened to the Jefferson Airplane and Jimi Hendrix and the Grateful Dead.
We knew the world was changing, and we wanted to be part of that change. What we didn't realize was that the world wasn't going to change very much, after all. But it did change, in ways that are still being felt.
Thank you Andy you have defined and demonstrated the word troll perfectly.Ive never been labeled an orthodox naturist before. Perhaps I am, but I dont like to label people.
Mmmm. Is this fair ... or credible? A classic practice of trolling is posting contrary to facts and disingenuous game-playing..
Definitions of internet troll are many and reference a will to be disruptive by posting insulting, rude or even harmful comments, deliberately posting off topic, ignoring facts that are well proven, and being facetious or downright dishonest.
Interestingly theres broad agreement that the motivation to troll is one of jealousy. The typical troll is frustrated with his ( research consistently agrees that the majority are male ) own life and craves attention. This is easiest pursued in a cowardly way online which has led some to label trolls closet bullies. This also explains the frequent use of passive aggressive argument and fake victimhood. It also explains why we dont meet these people in real life nudist situations. Either theyre not present / active in those real life communities or are present but are too cowardly to behave as badly as they do online hiding behind their keyboards.
Being disruptive and eliciting emotional reactions from other users of social media gives the weak ego a sense of validation through getting attention from those of whom hes envious. Youd be forgiven for thinking that, on a base level trolls are living caricatures of low achievers who are a nuisance. However trolling often reveals more sinister personality traits that shouldnt be left unaddressed. Like other negative behaviours, trolling tends to intensify over time and the lengths to which a troll will go increase. This has led to grave harassment and very real harm to real people. So trolling isnt funny or just a weak, narcissistic mans hobby. Its nasty and can even be dangerous.
Common troll personality traits observed by psychologists include extreme narcissism coupled with cowardly secrecy about their own true identity and lives. Trolls only reveal enough ( commonly fake ) information about themselves to gain access to social media platforms etc and to fabricate an online persona that will give an impression of standing / credibility within an online community and help to fake up validity to their deliberately disruptive, disingenuous, pretentious, offensive, and / or wilfully harmful engagement.
Standard advice is Dont feed the trolls - they love the attention. And thats what I intend to do - however Stoneandy doesnt deserve the unworthy insinuations of the reply from StevieLorna quoted above. Stoneandy doesnt exhibit any of the traits listed above. Wheres his narcissism? HE doesnt think that 400+ members of TN want to friend him for sex, nor has he researched their profiles and saved up their unaccepted friend requests. Wheres his secretiveness? His openness is an example to all of us. Wheres his disrespect? He doesnt insult other members or post in a superior I know best manner. Where are his off topic replies? I could go on and on but .. enough said.
The StevieLorna reply quoted above and others of his replies are classic trolling displaying many of the behaviours listed above.
There are so many wonderful, kind, open-hearted naturists - why would a troll allow his attention-seeking cowardice to wilfully try to undermine their connections and harm naturism as a whole?
Why not join in the discussions in meaningful ways and drop the attempts at being smart? Tell us about your experiences and feelings? Be vulnerable and experience the real naturism of what might be termed shared emotional nudity! The real you probably deserves our attention - so theres no need to troll for it.
Stoneandy ( who youve insinuated is a troll ) is exemplary in being open, thoughtful and respectful. Hes revealed personal details that show strength and sincerity. Personally Ive learned from him - I think he deserves respect ... and an apology.